River Valley Blogs

Shortly after Jared Dion's death in April of 2004, a pair of University of Wisconsin-La Crosse professors sent an open letter to UW-L students to prove there is no serial killer.

Please remember that this is dated but we think they still make a compelling argument.

Please note that some of the links may no longer be active.

An open letter to UW-L students from the chairs of Psychology and Sociology/Archeology

Why we are 99.9% sure it is NOT a serial killer - a data based explanation
Dear Students,

We have both worked here at UW-L for over 10 years. Every time a student has died, we have grieved for the student, his/her family, and friends. We have lost students to fires, auto accidents, suicides, and illness. This semester we lost a student to a drowning. And, again, we grieved, although we did not know him.

However, within hours of his disappearance, we started to hear theories about the "serial killer" who prays on young men in Midwestern college towns with rivers. In response to these theories, we must now be the professors that we are trained to be, as well as the members of the grieving community that we are. Throughout your college careers, you will be asked to engage in critical thinking. Nowhere is critical thinking more important than when you apply your education and training to your own lives and experiences. We implore you to use your critical thinking skills when you look at this situation.

When medical personnel are trained in the diagnosis of problems, they are often told this story. "When you hear hooves behind you, when you turn around you should expect to see horses, not zebras." In other words, the most common event should be the diagnosis you first expect. In the case of Jared Dion and other students who have drowned in the past several years, the "horse" diagnosis is "alcohol" while the "zebra" diagnosis is "serial killer." Other zebra diagnoses include the theories that a cop and/or a cab driver are involved in the drownings.

Let's take a look at some of the data that allow us to feel more secure about the idea that it was a plain old tragic accident that took the life of this student and the others who drowned.

First, researchers have long been able to identify the development of urban myths (Knight, 2002). Two websites that present lists and analyses of urban legends are http://www.snopes.com/ and www.urbanlegends.com/. The Snopes website writes that "A tale is considered to be an urban legend if it circulates widely, is told and re-told with differing details (or exists in multiple versions), and is said to be true." Scholars believe that individuals are prone to accept stories that do not directly contradict their personal experiences because they have an underlying need to increase their understanding of the world. In addition, conspiracy theories are kin to urban myths. Researchers know that the more "unexpected" and larger the event is, the more likely the conspiracy theory (Knight, 2002). Consequently, we don't think that a junkie in New York who overdosed is still alive, but perhaps Elvis Presley might be. We don't think that most folks who die in car accidents were victims of a plot to kill them, but Princess Di was.

Second, the data have to inform our decisions and how we view this event. If you were to find a squashed mouse in an elephant's cage, how often would you jump to the explanation that a serial killer was involved? The elephant in this case is alcohol. Every single case has involved blood alcohol levels at or above the .20 level. Can many of you name times when you were "totally trashed" and nothing bad occurred? Of course. Nevertheless, that does not negate the fact that we know that alcohol slows the physical and mental responses and mitigates our ability to read and respond to cues.

The leading cause of death for young men aged 15-24 is unintentional accidents (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_09.pdf). Men are more likely than women are to die because of an accident. Homicide and suicide are the next two most common causes of death for men aged 15-24. Alcohol has been found to be a factor in many of these events (Hingson, et al., 2002).

The National Safety Council reports that in 1999, 647 15-24 year-olds died due to drowning, 592 were male. Indeed, males in this age range have a drowning rate that is ten times higher than that of females (3.1 vs. .3 per 100,000, respectively). http://www.nsc.org/instant/Programs/db_leadcause.pdf. In comparison, homicide researchers estimate that less than one percent of all homicides are committed by serial killers (Fox & Levin, 1999, p. 167).

Let's take a look using data. We have 8,148 undergraduates here at UW-L, 3,559 are male. Approximately 40% of males in college binge drink (or drink to get drunk) regularly (Hingson, et al., 2002). Data from 567 UW-L students suggests that 32% of UW-L males reported having 6 or more drinks the last time they partied. Therefore, on any given Friday night in downtown La Crosse there may be up to 1,140 very drunk 18-24 year old male UW-L students downtown. Even if the number of male UW-L students downtown was one-tenth of this estimate, there would be 114 drunken UW-L males downtown. Many may wander about after the bars close, some will wander toward the river. Every now and then, someone will fall in and drown.

What about the "coincidences?" Let's take a close look at these. They are what we call in the social sciences "illusory correlations" - things that may appear related but are not or are explained by other events. Several websites now advance the theory that there is a serial killer loose in the upper Midwest praying on young college men, e.g., http://www.vanceholmes.com/court/trial_missing.html. This site indicates the following "coincidences" among the victims:

Mostly White males between the ages of 17-27

Lived in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana or Chicago the area surrounding Lake Michigan

Mostly students or recent graduates

Most were high-achieving

Most were in good physical condition or athletes

Last seen out drinking with friends or at a party

Were under the influence of alcohol

Became separated from the friends with whom they started the evening

All disappeared between the hours of 10 PM and 4 AM

Were reported missing by friends or family

The closed cases were all determined to be accidental drowning or possible suicides

Many of those found drowned were found in the Mississippi River, Red Cedar River or Lake Michigan

Victim's body, if found, had no signs of strangulation - gunshot - stab or other obvious sign of murder

All disappeared between the months of September and April.

Where is the coincidence with these numbers? These are college towns with rivers. In college towns, there are many college-aged males. The upper Midwest is overwhelmingly European American. College men who drink tend to do so in bars. College men who drink tend to do so from 10 pm -4 am and between the months of September and April. Easily 30% of college males might match these characteristics. If you go back to our conservative estimate of 114 drunk male college students downtown, that would be 34 men every Friday night who fit the "coincidence" profile.

We've both heard a lot of questions the past few days.

"Why don't more students drown in Madison?

Madison has a lake not a river. It gradually becomes deeper and is not moving swiftly.

"Why would he go to the river?"

Is it really so hard to imagine? He feels drunk. He thinks walking in the fresh air will "clear his head." He walks in the direction of the river. He feels nauseous and leans over the river to vomit, or he decides to splash his face with water. He slips. The river is 18 feet deep and moving rapidly.

"Why aren't there female victims?"

Women are much more likely to be socialized to the dangers of being alone - especially while drinking. They have learned, and use, elaborate systems for checking on one another when going downtown or into other situations where they might be vulnerable to victimization.

Does any of this make Jared's death any less tragic? No. However, we should not jump to the extremely unlikely explanation that a serial killer is responsible rather than the extremely likely explanation that his death is an unfortunate mix of a high level of intoxication and a cold, swift river. Perhaps even more of a concern is that it is somehow more comforting for us to think that Jared's death was caused by something we cannot control (e.g., a serial killer) rather than a cause we can control (not getting drunk, always keeping an eye on your buddies to ensure their safe return home). It is often harder to accept explanations that hit close to home - explanations that involve actions we ourselves have engaged in that put us at risk.

We join you in your grief, but we urge you to use your critical thinking skills. For each of the questions you hear or ask, please try to think of the types of information you would need to know to help think through the various theories and hypotheses. We encourage you collectively to take action to prevent events like this from happening in the future. For example, what can you as an individual student do to prevent accidents and deaths that are alcohol related? How could the student body work together with the city of La Crosse to make the river's edge and drinking downtown safer (such as the safety bus)? Finally, we encourage you to make use of campus resources to assist you in the grieving process and in your education about alcohol and its consequences (http://www.uwlax.edu/counseling/prog.html).

-Betsy Morgan, Ph.D. is the Chair of Psychology and has an ongoing interest in cognitive biases.

-Kim Vogt, Ph.D. is the Chair of Sociology and Archaeology whose research specialty is homicide.

References

American College Health Association (2003) University of Wisconsin La Crosse Executive Summary Spring 2003. Washington DC: Author.

Fox, J. A. & Levin, J. (1999). Serial murder: Popular myth and empirical realities in M. D. Smith & M. A. Zahn (Eds.).

Homicide: A sourcebook of social research (pp. 165-175). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage. Hingson, R. W., Heeren, T., Zakocs, R. C., Kopstein, A, & Wechsler, H. (2002).

Magnitude of alcohol-related mortality and morbidity among U. S. college students ages 18-24. Journal of Studies on Alcohol, 63, 136-144. Available on-line at http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/Reports/Journal/136-Hingson.sep.pdf.

Knight, P. (Ed.) (2002).

Conspiracy nation: The politics of paranoia in postwar America. New York: US: New York University Press.
.

Mr.Brains wrote on Jan 15, 2009 7:33 AM:

" This blog pisses me off i know the city police department is trying to save there asses and this is a good example... THIS is not just happening in la crosse its all over check it out type in smiley face killer and you will see the business of the whole incident... But i am not gonna explain myself it seems your to ignorant to believe its just white males jumping in for a swim and never reaching back to land... It is not drownings its murders and not just in la crosse wisconsin either... "

Murders wrote on May 26, 2008 10:28 PM:

" In order for there to be a murder you need a crime committed. Your SPECULATION/guessing about names having some type far reaching conspiracy link, oh yeah I'm sure that will certainly go far in court. Cuckoo Cuckoo, you really want a murder don't you. Hopefully the city has secret camera's set up in park so the next time it happens, and you go off whining about murders, they pop in the camera video of drunk ALONE staggering into river. "

wrote on May 25, 2008 12:49 AM:

" How many young men have died (in this manner) in LaCrosse? Then, last fall a young man in Maine, Matt LaCrosse dies in the same manner (body found in the river in March). Jenkins was a LaCrosse player, wasn't he? Curious.

At one disappearance scene, in Michigan, some of the graffiti included the word "Sinsiniwa". Later, another victim disappears from Sinsiniwa Ave., in Iowa. Another coincidence, I guess.

The smiley face is only ONE part of the common graffiti found by Gannon and Duarte. They are not saying what the rest is.

Use your heads. There is a word game going here. The detectives are right. These MURDERS are connected. "

To try wrote on May 14, 2008 6:39 PM:

" You 'genius' might TRY thinking and getting FACTS. Only "ONE" of the drownings left his wallet on river bank, not all of them. Also BEFORE the city put up the partial gates, it was simple to walk right into river from the levee, NO rocks, wall, fence, NOTHING. Hmmmm you want a killer don't you. Don't let city put up camera's, they will show what is happening and your wishing will end. "

trythewalk wrote on May 13, 2008 4:20 PM:

" those of you who feel these "drunks" are just walking in the river should go down Riverside Park and try walking down the rocks to the river's edge sober. I had to do it for work, it's not easy. Now tell me they're gonna leave their wallet and hat on the bank and walk down while too drunk to know where they are or what they're doing...hmmmm..doesn't take a genius to see thru that. "

To cross wrote on May 10, 2008 10:28 AM:

" The cops have many cases of drunks ALONE stopped at river. Your claim of other towns with rivers and it never happens there is wrong and has been debated to nauseum in past articles. Try educating yourself a little. No one, including cops say it is unusual it happens, but jumping to serial killer with no evidence would never fly in any court. However in blogs certain people want it to be killer, almost like hysterical lynch mob. These same people defend binge drinking so no suprise there. "

Jerry Cross wrote on May 9, 2008 2:29 PM:

" "Every now and then, someone will fall in and drown." Betsy Morgan, Kim Vogt

What about all the other towns with Rivers were this doesn't happen. How come people don't just fall in and drown in those places?Why are we so special in Lacrosse?

"The most common event should be the diagnosis you first expect", Betsy Morgan, Kim Vogt

Lets say...

I win the powerball. How'd I do it? Got lucky.

Lets say...

I win the powerball ten times in ten years. How'd I do it? Rigged it. "

Mike wrote on May 9, 2008 10:53 AM:

" It seems to me that those who posted refusing to believe the drownings were/are tragic accidents are a case study in how stupid urban legends stay in circulation. The serial killer is alive and well and "he" is a combination of testosterone and ethyl alcohol. If people would accept reality, they would take better care of their friends. "

DBOY wrote on May 9, 2008 7:35 AM:

" I like the idea of the city installing cameras in the park. This will put this stupid rumor to bed once and for all. "

mk wrote on May 8, 2008 3:15 PM:

" Fact is you could provide pro-serial killer theorists all the evidence in the world to prove their theory wrong and they will still believe somebody dangerous is lurking the streets waiting to kill the next severely intoxicated, smart, athletic, male college student in the area. Don't it all just sound ridiculous people? "

Kevin wrote on May 8, 2008 10:29 AM:

" Has anyone located a picture of the 'alleged' smiley face that was painted on one of the bridges in LaCrosse? Recall that this was referenced during in a blog associated to one of the drowning articles. If so, are there any associated dates to when this painting appeared? Or is this reference the proverbial urban myth? "

Froto wrote on May 7, 2008 11:34 AM:

" I have a lot of respect for the Police Dept. I do not believe they are trying to deceive anyone. At the same time, somtimes one is to involved and common sense gets lost. In that sometimes they cannot see the trees for the forest. Ever walk with someone really drunk, a slight nudge and they fall down, you do not need to beat on them. "

Re mk pm wrote on May 6, 2008 7:05 PM:

" One of these retired detectives is close friend of a drowning victim, SO that most certainly TAINTS his 'investigation' towards killer finding. What "evidence", a 'smiley' face??, ummmm never reported found in LaCrosse drownings. Hey twoface, what are you talking about, thats a typical barstool rumor. Do you have any FACTS, date, location, name, etc. Like last fall, northside, Why does a drunk walk into a MOVING train that he didn't see? "

PUT UP HIDDEN CAMERAS wrote on May 6, 2008 6:42 PM:

" This will show what happens when people go near river. Serial killer wishers WANT a killer so bad its sickening. CAMERA's will show the TRUTH, Drunks walking aimlessly around ALONE, ask the volunteer river watch patrol. They deal with drunks every weekend going towards river confused and ALONE. PUT UP CAMERA's ALREADY. When the next drunk falls in, which will happen with so many close calls, the camera's will show what happened. "

just wondering wrote on May 6, 2008 11:15 AM:

" First why is it always men that fall in the river, and secondly I am in my 50's and 3rd street has been there forever, we'd get wasted too, but nobody fell into the river (which by the way was there 50 years ago too. "

cold water wrote on May 5, 2008 5:57 PM:

" Rarely is it mentioned how cold the water was when these drownings happen. It's not a coincidence they happen between Sept. and April. The river is cold and air temperature can be warm. The gasp reflex leaves them helpless in the current. As for "how do they get in?", many try to swim the channel in the summer and most are drunk. The big difference is the water temp. That's right, I'm saying most jump in on purpose. "

re mk wrote on May 5, 2008 12:56 PM:

" No evidence? What about the 2 NY cops and their evidence? "

mk wrote on May 5, 2008 11:27 AM:

" Those of us who do not believe the serial killer theory are not necessarily denying that people can't use the river as an instrument of murder. I'm sure many crimes have taken place along the banks of rivers at or near La Crosse. But to blanket all the river drownings into a classification of one serial killer wandering around river towns committing countless homicides is completely based on hear-say and no evidence "

mk wrote on May 5, 2008 11:22 AM:

" Speedracer's comments more than prove an obvious point. The serial killer theory is a bunch of balogna, malarkey, hog-wash or whatever else you want to call it. Severely drunk people don't think with any sense of rationality people. They do things that leave sober people asking, "What are they thinking"? Many of them wander around aimlessly with an unrealistic goal in mind, like walking to 10th Avenue in Onalaska when they're drunk beyond belief and walking on 2nd Street in La Crosse. When are you people going to realize that this serial killer theory is nothing more than made up logic to deny the obvious (La Crosse has a drinking problem) and mere myth? "

RE TMEK wrote on May 5, 2008 10:45 AM:

" Having been severely intoxicated several times in my life (not proudly at all), I can tell you that there was always a glimmer of sobriety. I did care where I vomited and unless my body did not cooperate, I usually made it to a mostly private area, or the toilet, or someplace else removed from the mainstream crowd. Your mistake is in trying to apply logic to a drunk person. They will do things that appear wholy ordinary, and then hall off and start walking to alaska fully convinced they will get there. A drunk can be completely happy, something get said and they turn into a raging lunatic. They are out of control and unpredictable. "

twoface wrote on May 5, 2008 10:20 AM:

" No one seems to remember the 60 year old guy that was found drowned next to a dock. Someone had tied wire around his belt and then tied it to the dock. He used to frequent the gas station I worked at. Not exactly the most competent individual I had met but certainly not the kind to tie himself to a dock with wire. I also knew the fisherman that found the body so I know the wire wrapped around the belt isnt a myth or a lie. Somehow this incident is never brought up, is it just because this guy didnt fit the MO? "

TMK wrote on May 5, 2008 7:20 AM:

" If I remember correctly, at the site of these drownings in La Crosse, wallets, cigarettes, caps, etc. were laying nearby. If this is right, then how many people that need to vomit would take their items out of their pockets before doing falling or jumping into the river? Anyway, how many people that need to vomit care where they do it so why would they concern themselves with vomiting into the river rather than on the ground? If they're too drunk to know where they are, how can they make the decision to vomit into the river? I believe there is something happening beyond accidental drownings or suicides. Yes - they are getting too drunk, but I just can't accept the La Crosse police's conclusion as to these cases. "

Hey auntie and tena wrote on May 4, 2008 10:01 PM:

" Try to Open your eyes and open your closed minds that it HAS to be serial killer. Take a look at the article; 2 near misses, under cops and courts. Not one but TWO males ALONE "intentionally" went in ice cold river, in just ONE weekend. SO it 'never' happens right?, WRONG, your comments are uninformed. "

speedracer wrote on May 4, 2008 1:51 PM:

" Last spring I was sitting by the new fountain near Logistics Health building when an intoxicated MALE was headed my way down Jay St. A CSE tried stopping him and he kept walking... next thing I know there's 4 police officers after this guy, stopping him about 25 feet from going over the edge. I heard him clearly tell the officers that he thought he was walking home to 10th Ave N. in Onalaska.
So now that it's harder for our intoxicated males to walk into the river from Pearl St., maybe we should be looking at Jay St... also a straight line down from 3rd St. "

Davy Crockett wrote on May 4, 2008 8:53 AM:

" The University of Tennessee is on the Tennessee River and has 26,400 students. When I was there, we were ranked the #1 party school in America. Most of us got plastered on Jack Daniel's or moonshine regularly, except for the nights before midterm or final exams. I've never heard of ANYONE drowning on the Tennessee River in Knoxville EVER. "

Tena in Colorado wrote on May 4, 2008 7:53 AM:

" Here's a few more; Gottschalk, Shuman-Moore, Fortney, Ohnri, Szostak, Fleischmann, Shaffer, Hansen, Luzio. Shuman-Moore had duct tape around his wrists and ankles when they found him but it was classified as a suicide.
"

xoox wrote on May 3, 2008 3:36 PM:

" I am looking for information. I know that the FBI reviewed the police dapartments reports and awhile back Kondracki released part of the report and then made sarcasstic coments about some pepole still seeing Elvis. If I recall correctly he did not release the whole FBI report and refused to. Please correct me if I'm wrong on the facts, but does anyone know if he has released the whole report yet? And if not why? "

rjdv wrote on May 3, 2008 2:22 PM:

" For info on serial killer, check out ABC Good Morning America website.
They did a story this past week on 2 retired NYC police officers who are doing the investications on the river killer, they believe this has been going on for more than 10 yrs. They went public this week because they are basically out of $ to continue their research.
It's worth a couple bucks to me to keep this investigation going. "

To Auntie J wrote on May 3, 2008 11:58 AM:

" Try this, click on blue 'cops and courts' and go down to the article "Students back at it". There are examples of your 'I can't believe they would walk down to river', which is repeated every weekend. Thanks to the volunteer river watch patrol which has stopped many drunk college aged males ALONE at river. Hopefully cameras get put up soon, but wishers like good old auntie still won't believe it, even if on camera. "

To tena auntie and other killer wishers wrote on May 3, 2008 11:42 AM:

" Tena try listing all the names of those that died of alcohol poisoning (non drowning) since 1997, it dwarfs your drowning list (google). Try listing the number of deaths and injuries from drunk driving by college aged males, it dwarfs your list also. The killer must be in the vehicles with them when the drunks drive into trees, buildings, people, because I don't believe they would just do that, right auntie. Hey auntie, have you ever been drunk, you do dumb things thats why there are laws against it. The solution is "personal responsibility", but your comments enable the kids to drink unrestricted. "

Serial Killer Ridiculous wrote on May 3, 2008 6:44 AM:

" A serial killer wouldn't get much of a thrill out of pushing someone in the river - he/she could hardly even watch him drown and would likely get no "rush" from the kill. The one thing that has changed over the years is Riverside Park. It is more accessable, more inviting, etc... What is happening here is that people are getting drunk and falling in the river. Period. Tragic? Yes. Killer? Ridiculous! "

Auntie J wrote on May 3, 2008 2:27 AM:

" I do not believe that intoxicated college men are walking down to the river and accidently drowning (are you kidding me). If that were the case, we would have many many more college students drowning all over the place. Something strange is going on here and the police need go on the "inside" and figure out what's going on. I hope and pray this never happens again. Kids, please designate someone who's not going to drink so they can watch out for the rest of the group. "

wait a minute wrote on May 2, 2008 8:24 PM:

" IF, that is a big word, but IF there is some criminal conspiracy involved in ANY of these drownings, then ALL must be re-examined. To say they got to these high BAC levels does not mean they did so voluntarily IF foul play was involved. "

Tena in Colorado wrote on May 2, 2008 6:54 PM:

" This list of last names is not a coincidence. I don't know any of these men that have all died of drowning but my heart aches for them and their families. I lost my brother in 87 and let me tell you it feels like yesterday. But this list is long and Iam sure it's actually bigger than this. Theres something bad going on something evil. My nephew from BRF went off to college this year. Am I worried for him? YES. "

Tena in Colorado wrote on May 2, 2008 6:46 PM:

" Since 1997; Blatz,Skifton,Getz,Kapfer,Noble, Geesey,Wetzien,Katcher,Christiansen,Hayduk, Blair,Nordby,Papandreou,Javons,Burrows,Jenkins,Noll,Guiman,Sharon,Carrick,Herr,Steinkeoway, Leadley,Hauk,Sheiss,Dion,Marlon,Falcon,Olberding,Theim,Houk,Sharman,Shell,Welsh,Kycia,Campbell,Kruziki,Radal,Shakar,Homan,Bolanos,Gains...COINCIDENCE?!??? Come on! Open your eyes! Iam sure this is just the tip of the iceberg!!! "

to michael jackson wrote on May 2, 2008 3:14 PM:

" No no, here's your wild fantasy; The river monster alien with a smiley face comes out of the river during the no moon cycle, because full moon is reserved for werewolves and nut jobs, so anyway the alien goes looking for Jackson, because it will do all us a favor removing this nutjob from the blogs. "

rejackson wrote on May 2, 2008 2:18 PM:

" you should write a bad teen horror movie or a trashy novel because that's about all that descriptions good for. ha ha ha ha ha "

Diana wrote on May 2, 2008 1:12 PM:

" To Jackson: Sounds like you have done this before....too creepy in fact on how you explain it. Your visions? You made yourself sound as though you've done this before. Have You? "

Jackson wrote on May 2, 2008 10:55 AM:

" The perfect crime: Lure a person you been stalking away from their friends with the offer of alcohol from a shiny flask at bar time and slowly guide them into your muse with pretty flavored grain alcohol that now rips through their brain,colliding with all of the evenings drinking racing their brain into a stupor raising their BAC to the outer limits, then in the dark now by the river when no ones looking PUSH THEM IN! The ones that are found wandering are the ones who were lucky enough not to be pushed because someone was looking so they aborted their plan remembering it isnt a crime until humpty dumpty is pushed! A woman would be the perfect aluring distraction to do this crime.
Just My opinion and visions! "

Would cameras be helpful wrote on May 1, 2008 6:59 PM:

" What if motion activated camera's were installed along river, then they would show if the person is ALONE or not, when going in river. Then if ALONE, would that end the conspiracy/serial killer sick wishing. Also remember as teenagers drawing many smiley faces on school notebooks, buildings, bridges, etc, so I hope we're not responsible. Drunk people do not think right and do bizare things, like drive drunk into trees, cars, etc. Put up cameras to end the killer wishing. "

what about wrote on May 1, 2008 2:42 PM:

" Chris Jenkins, he was just another drunk that fell into the river and drowned, right? Wrong.

This kinda thing didn't happen years ago. "

open mind wrote on May 1, 2008 2:28 PM:

" I'm not saying people don't drink too much, I'm saying that doesn't mean there isn't more to it. "

to did you know wrote on May 1, 2008 1:57 PM:

" Try getting FACTS from the Eau Claire tv/newspaper before spewing out your 'suspicious' bs. I google searched there and found that two were ruled drunk/suicides, one known by family/friends and one in front of other people. I will not waste more time on your other suspicions. Drinking alcohol is a depressant. "

re open mind wrote on May 1, 2008 1:47 PM:

" Over 1/2 the members of our government thought there were WMDs in IRAQ too. Look at where that line of reasoning got us! Let the evidence talk, gather some evidence with substance, until then work with the evidence at hand....high BACs. It isn't being politically correct to say that individuals who are in the .2-.4 BAC area are at risk, and place others at risk. That is proven over and over and over again. So keep an open mind, but don't ignore the facts we have. "

mk wrote on May 1, 2008 1:11 PM:

" What is "skewed" about the idea that La Crosse has a drinking problem. La Crosse and the whole state of Wisconsin for that matter has a drinking problem. Most people across our country find many things to do with their free time besides drinking. In our state however you are looked upon as being strange if you don't go to a bar at least once or twice a month, especially as a college aged person. Drinking has become more than a casual pastime for many people in this area, it has become a function of life for many. Kind of like the inevitability of having to go to the bathroom. "

open mind wrote on May 1, 2008 12:11 PM:

" Although I'm not convinced it's a serial killer, when 2 retired detectives, a criminal justice professor, and other investigators think something is up (see http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/la_crosse_wisconsin/index.html) then it's worth considering. Our politically correct society has skewed the thinking of so many of those who say La Crosse has a drinking problem and blame it on that. All of you 'experts' that are dismissing this think you know more than people who do this for a living? "

Mr. Miagi wrote on May 1, 2008 10:53 AM:

" To mk: I'll be darned, I agree with you on this issue. There aren't many I do, however, this whole "conspiracy" is a joke. For once it would be nice to see some personal responsibility from society. "

mk wrote on May 1, 2008 9:11 AM:

" Those who drank thirty to forty years ago did it in a socializing style of atmosphere. They went to bars to have a few drinks, to meet a woman/man, to dance, and have fun. Many college aged kids go out to bars to simply get drunk today. They say they drink to have fun with others but in reality they're out there for themselves. After an hour or so many of these people are in their own little worlds and everyone around them (friends and dates included) are as invisible as the air itself. "

mk wrote on May 1, 2008 9:05 AM:

" Those who drowned were not attending house parties, they all were drinking at bars on third street. Review your comments before any of you start throwing around false facts to support your serial killer theory. What is the media hiding from us? Most of you who say there is a serial killer also say the media is hiding something? What do you know that the rest of us don't? "

mk wrote on May 1, 2008 9:00 AM:

" Lets stop looking beyond the obvious (binge drinking is a huge problem here, and alcohol is the reason each of these men died) and reaching for solutions to these deaths that a. based on evidence don't make sense and b. excuse the real issue at hand. THERE IS NO SERIAL KILLER. There is however college aged kids with serious sobriety and control issues. You mix uncontrolled drinking near a relatively close raging river accidents are bound to happen. Read the facts of this article, statistically speaking it makes crystal clear sense. "

RE Did you know wrote on May 1, 2008 8:42 AM:

" I do blame the victims and their friends. I place a small amount of blame on the bars but not much. All the LaCrosse victims were excessively drunk, and yes you can walk around with BACs higher than .2. Do you not read the papers report of the folks found wandering around totally lost? These articles are not published for their news content. They are published so people understand just how unpredictable drunk people get. They are published so people realize just how many folks do end up in the park. The park has gained such notoriety that it's almost like a magnet now....you goof balls! "

Larry Bird wrote on May 1, 2008 8:30 AM:

" " I am a college grad of Lax and I was a friend of one of the guys that was found in the river. I have a lot of doubt that there wasn't some form of foul play involved. I don't think that these cases get the attention that they deserve, in that they potentially could be connected like the retired detectives think. Who knows maybe the smiley face was a co-incidence or may be it isn't that obvious,maybe its undernieth a bridge? I wish the FBI would get involved and take what the two detectives have found and try to get some answers. I just hope that these cases get more attention before it happens again.
RIP-Jared
"

DID YOU KNOW wrote on Apr 30, 2008 10:47 PM:

" Did you know that Eau Claire had 3 suspicious college age kids drownings or that Madison had one and Iowa State had 1 too? Our local news has dropped the ball on the widespread suspicious drownings elsewhere concerning themselves with trying to change OUR culture of alcohol without OUR permission. Trying to blame the bars and the victims. Even this article assumes the drunks go downtown, most were at house parties and there are plenty of places to get alcohol besides downtown. I hope there is a major apology and resignations if any one of these is proven to be homocide. "

Well Written Article wrote on Apr 30, 2008 9:10 PM:

" Great article, but it does not help explain the new evidence the detectives say they have. "

elocs wrote on Apr 30, 2008 8:05 PM:

" Having been in college here during 1972-75, when there were many more young people drinking downtown when the drinking age was 18, I don't remember anyone heading for the river after drinking--intentional or otherwise. Not saying it is zebras, but what on earth is going on with college males today after drinking downtown? "

jersey wrote on Apr 30, 2008 6:36 PM:

" Have you ever been down by the levee where most of the victims likely fell in? There are no rocks to trip on, it is a straight, clean fall into the river. The sidewalk from 3rd street leads directly to the river. Although a serial killer theory is always legit, I continue to think that it is just hilarious that people would rather believe that than to look at the obvious. "

re cover it up wrote on Apr 30, 2008 2:42 PM:

" In most of the more recent cases (including Jared Dion and Luke Homan) they likely went in over the levee. A trip down to Riverside Park will show that it would take very little to "lean Over" or "trip and fall into" the river from that point.

This, according to the professors, is one of the reasons La Crosse may have a bigger problem that places like Madison, Winona or Eau Claire where the route to the water is either zero depth (lakes) or over rip rap.

I know you haven't seen the police reports, but what do you think the police may have overlooked?

Just looking for any ideas or suggestions.
"

Cover it up wrote on Apr 30, 2008 12:20 PM:

" The only reason the local police and FBI dont want to have anything to do with the retired officers findings, is because they all over looked evidence and they are to embarassed to admit it. If anyone would like to listen to the commentary about this latest article, news channel 5 in Minneapolis had a segment on it last Friday, it was interesting, you could probably find it in their archives. The thing that has always puzzled me is how it is always stated that the drunk student wanders down to the river and leans over and falls in. How does a person that can barely walk make it over all the big rocks along the river? Most likely they would fall and crack their head open before even making it to the water. "

Right.. wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:02 AM:

" Only in LaCrosse, drunks walk into the river. It doesn't happen anywhere else. Keep telling yourself that. "

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