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 Jimmy Gillman

Published - Wednesday, October 08, 2008

POST COMMENT | READ COMMENTS (56 comment(s))

Blogging the debate: a “live” diary of last night’s town hall meeting

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Well, the debate’s about to begin, having been preceded by hours of discussion on the cable networks. The consensus among politicos seems to be that John McCain will be taking a big risk in a town hall format if he decides to ignore the economy in favor of attacking Barack Obama’s character, which they say could easily backfire. I say the old curmudgeon is desperate and he’ll go for the jugular anyway. I guess we’ll know soon.

Typical intro by Tom Brokaw, blah, blah, blah

Brokaw asks each candidate who they’d appoint as Secretary of the Treasury; McCain decides to throw a sucker punch out of nowhere and says “not you, Tom” (weird). It’s a vacuous question at this stage of the game; what’s in a name out of context? Brokaw should have asked them what kinds of policies they’d want their Treasury Secretary to pursue.

McCain drops a bombshell in calling for another huge Federal bailout of additional mortgages on top of the $700 billion we all just got stuck with. Very strange move.

McCain throws the first punch about ten minutes in, linking Obama to Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. Obama counters. Been there, done that.

McCain continues to attack, but it’s pretty mild stuff.

Both candidates are asked to tell what kinds of sacrifices they’ll ask of Americans; neither really answers.

McCain looks angry and agitated, Obama relaxed and confident. The contrast of their personas is striking.

Obama wants to respond to a McCain accusation; Brokaw asserts himself and goes on to the next question, but asks it in such a way that Obama can give his original response, zinging McCain with a shot at the “straight talk” express.

McCain tries to land some zingers, but they’re stiff and the staid attempts at humor seem out of place in the face of today’s continued crashing of the stock market and economy. He also begins to use “my friends” repeatedly.

Brokaw continues to whine about the candidates going over their time; Tom, they’re the stars of the show, not you.

McCain is becoming more strident and curmudgeonly, and disrespectful, callously referring to Obama at one point as “that one.”

Almost an hour into the debate; no big fireworks; nothing new being said.

McCain attacks Obama’s health care plan. McCain makes another lame joke, this time about hair transplants, and offers a bizarre plan involving walk-in clinics.

Asked whether health care is a privilege, a right or a responsibility, McCain calls it a responsibility, but never says whose. Obama gives an impassioned plea and claims it’s the right of every American.

Stunningly, McCain says, "My friends, we are not going to be able to provide the same benefit for present-day workers that we are going -- that present-day retirees have today."

I think we’ve hit double-digits with “my friends.”

Foreign policy is now on the table; McCain is dismissive; Obama hits back, i.e. same old, same old.

Yep, we’ve hit double digits with “my friends.”

McCain accuses Obama of wanting to bring the troops home in defeat, same old Republican mantra of Democrats are weak on defense.

McCain repeats the phony charge that Obama is reckless and would announce a strike against Al Queda in Pakistan prior to conducting it. Obama reminds the audience of McCain singing “bomb bomb Iran” and stating North Korea should be annihilated. Same as in their last debate.

Ten minutes left (I hope) and so far McCain has (wisely) not brought up Bill Ayers or Jeremiah Wright.

McCain wants Georgia to join NATO. Does that mean another Russian incursion into that country will commit us to going to war with Russia?

McCain and Obama spar on the Middle East (Iran as a threat to Israel and others); same charges and counter-charges we’ve heard before.

Damn! It’s already 9:30, which means this thing will be running over.

Obama gives an inspiring answer to the final question; McCain gives a nice wrap-up.

Now I can eat.

Postscript: McCain never mentioned Sarah Palin, but he said “Joe Lieberman and I” on three separate occasions. He also referred to General David Petraeus as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Moments after the debate ended, Cindy and John McCain left the hall; Michelle and Barack Obama continued to interact with the crowd for nearly 30 minutes.

Finally, tonight makes two entire debates, over three hours, in which John McCain has yet to literally speak the words “middle class.”
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 Tell us what you think...

 Comments »

Izzy wrote on Oct 10, 2008 3:28 PM:

" How much "tax" would a medium or large business have to "throw in the kitty" to pay for the health care costs of other people? And, doesnt the fact I am even asking this question in and of itself show what a danger Barack Obama is to this country? "

To Izzy wrote on Oct 10, 2008 2:36 PM:

" I can't remember if McCain used his usual lie. He usually says that Obama's plan "fines small businesses that don't provide heath insurance." That, as usual, is a lie. Obamas plan provides a tax CREDIT to small businesses that provide health coverage and exempts the rest. Medium and large businesses that don't provide health insurance would have to pay a tax into a fund to help provide coverage for the poor. Both parts are incentives to provide coverage so the government doesn't have to. Otherwise we all keep paying for those without coverage. "

Re Harschs Logic wrote on Oct 10, 2008 1:27 PM:

" So, if we write about two different things on these blogs, we are "implicitly" equating the two? Apparently this is what Krause did?-Izzy "

Izzy again to 215 pm post wrote on Oct 10, 2008 12:26 PM:

" Are you also denying that Barack Obama has said he supports fining employers if they dont offer health insurance? "

Michael Welch McCain Is For SOCIALIZING Home Mortgages -- SO... wrote on Oct 10, 2008 11:20 AM:

" I just wish people would write about something interesting. The world financial system is in collapse and look at the comments since yesterday! 'Desperation' flop sweat -- well true is it not? 'Cf' returns to 'fight' his unrelenting battle of Harsch parsing now that BGS is apparently on hiatus. I wrote the other day about another 'collapse' -- that of the righties commenting on Jimmy's blog. They seem in HOT pursuit of the most trivial. McCain as I noted below has ventured an admittedly 'EXPENSIVE' (Comrade John's term) bailout of INDIVIDUAL HOME MORTGAGES and NO rightie has said ONE WORD! Instead they're addicted to slop wrestling, repeating their same tired moves as if they were anything more than going through the motions... "

harsch wrote on Oct 10, 2008 8:08 AM:

" I could while away the hours
blogging with brainy powers
if i only had a brain... "

Cagefighter wrote on Oct 9, 2008 5:00 PM:

" Did y'all hear about Harschs new rule? We are no longer supposed to write about things we respect. Krause was the first offender. "

Izzy to 215 pm post wrote on Oct 9, 2008 4:31 PM:

" see 829am post. Are you really arguing that because other politicians do it too, its ok? Sorry, if he is campaigning for my vote, dont expect me to pick up the tab. If you dont want to pay your bill, stay away. "

harsch wrote on Oct 9, 2008 3:35 PM:

" Indeed, why come to La Crosse? Are they not invited to put the city on the map? Yes, of course every campaign does it more or less the same way. The liberal media (La Crosse Tribune) reporsts that La Crosse pays Obama's bill--I'm very confused. "

Izzy Izzy Izzy wrote on Oct 9, 2008 2:15 PM:

" You cherry picking little wuss. Please go back and read where I explained that Bush and McCain and other politicians get the same deal and pay the same. They ALL stiff the taxpayers. NONE of them would come if they had to pay the entire bill. By the way, it is more telling that President Bush (a Republican, GASP!) was billed a lower percentage than Obama. Really, you are starting to stink of desperation. "

Michael Welch Comrade John McCain -- And Comrade SARAH... wrote on Oct 9, 2008 11:26 AM:

" The Brits have just taken rather dramatic steps to in effect 'nationalize' their banking system, which is teetering interestingly in part because of investments in the seductive but unsustainable high interest offered by Iceland's banks. Now the British are threatening to SUE Iceland in order to recover deposits -- can a Falklands like Brit-Icelandic war be far behind! Anyway one of the wry dry British dailies announced in its morning edition 'We Are All Socialists Now -- Comrades!' So I purpose McCain, with his latest let's nationalize ALL home mortgages proposal, drop that treacly 'My friends' for the muscular, manly and more bracing 'Comrades!' 'Comrades it's time to put the state before our selfish individual interests!' Much better -- uh 'COMRADE Jawn'... "

Izzy to to what the heck wrote on Oct 9, 2008 10:56 AM:

" Thank you for admitting it would have been better for Obama to pay the entire cost of his visit, and acknowledging that he wouldnt address the American people unless they pick up his tab. That is very telling. "

To further wrote on Oct 9, 2008 10:54 AM:

" Why do you only pick on one side for supposed distortions? What about people like Harsch who accuse people like Kenneth Krause of not respecting his(Kenneths) religion? Kenneth is not only respectful of his own religion, but of others as well. This is what Harsch does when he is "losing" an arguement. At least people like Welch, though disagreeable, usually dont lie. "

Further ... wrote on Oct 9, 2008 8:58 AM:

" Why should I provide any more documentation? Next time you provide the documentation that one of your lies, I mean comments, is true. Otherwise I'll just call you a liar and I won't have to prove it: because your reputation precedes you. "

To To what the heck ... wrote on Oct 9, 2008 8:55 AM:

" You've slipped into idiocy now. You are STILL skeptical? Look it up on Google yourself. OF COURSE it would be better and the right thing for campaigns to pay the entire cost of their visits. However, the first thing they'd do is stop visiting. The city does gain some benefit from the visits I suppose. By the way, don't forget that Bush "bilked the taxpayers" and McCain is going to "bilk the taxpayers" too. "

To and oh what the heck..in fact... wrote on Oct 9, 2008 8:29 AM:

" I am still skeptical that Obama did not say this. Can you provide any more documentation? In fact--so your arguement regarding Obama bilking the taxpayers is because "everyone else does it, so its ok?" I suppose if I am at the grocery store and they only bill me for a fraction of my groceries, I can walk out with a clear conscience because "that is what they billed me"? Come on. "

I meant wrote on Oct 8, 2008 10:36 PM:

" fightthesmears.com "

Richard Cranium wrote on Oct 8, 2008 10:07 PM:

" You can also go to stopthesmears to read about a number of other things Obama DID NOT SAY. "

Timmy wrote on Oct 8, 2008 9:23 PM:

" Judgment... I have come to loathe that word over the course of this election cycle. Can't the puppeteers behind Obama and McCain come up with something different? How about discernment? Mental acuity? Or perspicacity? At least that would be change I could believe in. "

And oh what the heck ... wrote on Oct 8, 2008 5:05 PM:

" here's even more proof for you desperate weasels. Factcheck.org also has the quote listed as false: "Obama never said what's being attributed to him in a number of chain e-mail messages. The line was meant as a joke about John McCain, Hillary Clinton and politicians in general.
This one keeps going around, even though it was thoroughly debunked months ago.

The origin of this quote is the National Review Online, the Web site of the magazine founded by the late William F. Buckley Jr.. The magazine did not attribute the remark to Obama. According to an item posted Jan. 28 on the NRO blog The Corner, it came from an anonymous contact overseas who was making fun of Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton and Republican candidate John McCain and of politicians in general, regardless of party." "

In fact ... wrote on Oct 8, 2008 4:53 PM:

" Obama is paying more based on a percentage of costs than Bush did. Bush was billed $7800 on $60,000. Obama is being billed $8674 on about $36,000 worth of cost. "

Furthermore ... wrote on Oct 8, 2008 4:48 PM:

" Why should Obama pay more than Bush did or McCain will? Do you really believe McCain is going to pay more out of the goodness of his heart? Nope. he'll pay exactly what they bill him, just like Obama. "

OK you nitwits wrote on Oct 8, 2008 4:46 PM:

" This quote has been debunked by Snopes back in May. It under the title Small Change. Jimmy, I have copied the URL. I know you may not let it through. Here it is: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/change.asp

It started as a joke and you ridiculous loser who want to believe the worst of anyone with whom you disagree turned it into an actual quote. Quit being lazy about the truth and quit lying. "

duckyhntr wrote on Oct 8, 2008 3:42 PM:

" Where does one go from here lets have a real debate next time not an answer and question period, let them both come out swinging and see what happens when they get mad and who gets out of controll first,,, vote bassed on your V. P. cause neither one will live out there 4 year term then who do we get "

To two o six pm wrote on Oct 8, 2008 3:37 PM:

" So, you are saying that MONTHS ago, someone just made this quote up, attributed it to Obama, and everyone, including Obama himself, simply accepted it? And now McCain just happened to use the words "My friends" repeatedly? Come on, you hamburger. Who's zoomin who? "

To My Friends... wrote on Oct 8, 2008 3:17 PM:

" So, why does he need this "deal"? Wouldnt the honorable thing be to pick up his own tab? Anyway, no matter how much you protest, the aforementioned quote is real. "

My friends ... You pitiful liar ... wrote on Oct 8, 2008 2:06 PM:

" Gee, if millions of Obama supporters heard him say it it should be easy to find on the internet, right? Show me one actual citation. You can't, because it doesn't exist. As far as bilking La Crosse out of thousands of dollars; Obama gets the same deal as every other past visiting presidential nominee and the same deal they'll give McCain. C'mon come up with something close to damning or truthful. Oh, but make sure you have actual evidence; not just Rush's or Sean's say so. "

Michael Welch -- But Words Will Never Hurt Me... wrote on Oct 8, 2008 1:21 PM:

" I guess I should start say 'My friends' hmm... "

Nestor wrote on Oct 8, 2008 12:56 PM:

" "...but he never sounds mellow and intimate as Franklin D did but smarmy and McCain as unctious and smarmy -- NOT attractive." Mind you, this is a quote from Welch???? LOL "

Southeast Atheist to Big Spender wrote on Oct 8, 2008 12:36 PM:

" Keep the brilliant quotes coming--I mean, who wouldnt believe some obscure poet? abhhuu''ulllaaaaa'mmmmm. Yes, a better country is on the way. The quarks and leptons will soon rule! "

Nestor wrote on Oct 8, 2008 12:35 PM:

" As both parties concentrate on their progress toward election day. How come NOBODY is talking about the Elephant in the room? 410's, and IRA's. Although here in WI rumblings just this morning the WRS hastily called for a 'special meeting'? Private retirement investors will survive on return form their investment portfolios, up or down. Although the WRS which encapsulates municipalities, Counties, State employees, etc. Their monthly retirement amount is almost always fixed. Based on an equation using past highest income years. Where will those funds come from. Can you say 'double whack'? Then I wonder where the bloated, overstuffed $35 million Lacrosse School 'slush fund resides? How much has been lost there? "

To hey my friends wrote on Oct 8, 2008 12:33 PM:

" You say keep them coming, but you havent done anything with what I already tossed your way. Again, dont believe me-believe the millions of B. Hussein Obama supporters who heard him say this, and have been trying to rationalize it ever since. The quote is real. How about bilking the good taxpayers of LaCrosse out of thousands of dollars, as documented in todays Tribune? That is false also, I suppose? "

Jeff wrote on Oct 8, 2008 12:07 PM:

" McCain should have been a real maverick and opposed the bailout. "

Big Spender to SE Quarks and Leptons wrote on Oct 8, 2008 11:55 AM:

" This would be a better country if we had leaders who knew about quarks and leptons; instead they have to suck up to cuckoo religions and delusional clerics.

"The inhabitants of the earth are of two sorts:"
"Those with brains, but no religion,"
"And those with religion, but no brains."

Abu'l-`Ala' al-Ma`arri (Arabic: ), poet of Ma`arra, quoted in Maalouf, Amin (1989). Crusades Through Arab Eyes. "

Michael Welch Right Here In River City Yup... wrote on Oct 8, 2008 11:37 AM:

" I too wish the Jim blog offered a 'counterpoint' -- i. e. some actual INTELLIGENT talk from gen-u-wine conservatives rather than only the whiny ones. Jimmy made an apt comment above in saying that oft times BOTH candydandys skirted (minus Sarah, also FOREVER uh 'skirted' -- from now on at least) addressing the world wide financial meltdown in any truly serious discussion. This is, in other words, WORSE than it looks; even ol' 'Nest's prediction that it's ALL ready to be toiletized may turn out more prescient than Bush's somber patter that uh 'prosperity is just around the corner'? Got trouble children big big trouble and starts with 'T' and rhymes with 'P' that stands for 'poor' -- poor you, poor me, poor all of 'US'... "

Hey my friends wrote on Oct 8, 2008 11:32 AM:

" Are you saying Snopes and Politifact are wrong? Why the heck should we believe you? They actually document the evidence that you are lying. Why don't you show us the citation and proof that he said it? Becase you can't! You are lying! Cavorting with a known terrorist? Cavorting? Another lie. the 94 tax cut canard is another proven lie and exaggeration. Look it up on FactCheck.org or Politifact or the AP for that matter. Keep them coming goof ball. You have no policy legs to stand on so keep bringing out the lies. "

Michael Welch In The Heat Of The Night... wrote on Oct 8, 2008 11:28 AM:

" It's always been 'odd' that McCain, supposedly a THEODORE Roosevelt maven, never adopted 'Bully!' as an expression, though perhaps for fear that it be taken as a self description? Instead he nips FDRoosevelt's trademark 'Myyyy friends!' but he never sounds mellow and intimate as Franklin D did but smarmy and McCain as unctious and smarmy -- NOT attractive. Obama edges often into a slightly querulous tone as if he's holding back; he's more Sidney Poitier, the ultimate in smoothed and banked tensions relieved only by a wry glance. Maybe once Mac ought to have said to O -- 'You ever git lonnnnely Virgil?'... "

To mytwocents from Jimmy wrote on Oct 8, 2008 11:21 AM:

" The Tribune offers lots of counterpoints, like you, for instance, and Cagefighter, and Nestor, and Jeff, and many others, including on this posting alone the likes of youbetcha and your evaluation. And the paper regularly runs columns by conservatives like Kathleen Parker, Cal Thomas and others. There's more diversity of opinion here than you'll find on Fox News or in The National Review, The Weekly Standard and other conservative publications. "

Southeast Atheist to Big Spender wrote on Oct 8, 2008 11:20 AM:

" Yeah, low attention spans...of course, they conveniently left out the quarks and leptons. The debates we engage in here are much more sophisticated. You betcha! "

Michael Welch But The BIG Question Would Be -- So Few Senators So Many JEWS... wrote on Oct 8, 2008 11:19 AM:

" I actually was intrigued with the bailout proposal by McCain; I think that indeed is closer to 'socialism for the poorer' and an idea worth adoption by Obama. Where the money comes from -- oh maybe the confiscation of all CEOs' 'golden parachutes'? (Ah a golden dream! After their money is uh 'nationalized' they are then sentenced to perpetual public service in the myriad soup kitchens they've been assiduously 'job creating' eh.) Otherwise it was pretty same same -- Shrinking Mac as 'Mr Tense' and the Getting Bigger O as 'Mr Smooth.' The question Brokaw missed of course was one about why there are SO MANY Jewish senators -- including Lieberman eh. I mean: expiring minds want to know!... "

harsch...associates wrote on Oct 8, 2008 10:59 AM:

" I saw a great address from Keith Olberman to Palin today in which he cites her associations with the Alaskan secession movement, the exorcisor of witches, and McCains involvement with a group trying to overthrow the Nicaraguan government. Throw in McCain's Keating ties, and his pastoral problems and despite the fact that some of the guilt by association is nonsense it is a debate Democrats will welcome. "

mytwocents wrote on Oct 8, 2008 10:57 AM:

" I wish the Tribune offered a "counterpoint". It is too bad they don't. "

Big Spender wrote on Oct 8, 2008 10:34 AM:

" This isn't a real debate--everyone knows that. The candidates saw to that by dictating that these 'debates' maintain a low-attention-span sound-byte format. As soon as things got interesting, the moderator was forced to cut the discussion off: they don't want us to look at anything in a deep and well-studied way. Depth of thought is dangerous to the careers of corporate politicians. "

Starfish wrote on Oct 8, 2008 9:41 AM:

" I'm sorry, Jeff; it looks like some of my confusion is grammar. "Trips and old lady" had nothing to do with LSD--your hilarious joke was meant to say "Trips AN old lady." NOW I get it. Funny, also, that the Obama's staying around to "mingle with the faithful" when the audience was basically handpicked by Republican Tom Brokaw. . . "

To To My Friends wrote on Oct 8, 2008 9:36 AM:

" You hamburgers need to realize you cant believe everything you read on snopes. Yes, he did say that-those exact words. That is an established fact that even Democrats acknowledge(but try to explain away). As for the taxes? Check his record. He voted 94 times either FOR tax increases and/or AGAINST tax cuts. Also, McCain showed some mercy by not bringing us his association with Ayers. Jimmy calls it wise, but the association and cavorting with this known terrorist is well documented(I suppose snopes refutes that?). "

To Jeff wrote on Oct 8, 2008 9:26 AM:

" I don't usually agree with you, but those last posts are funny. thanks for the laughs. "

Jeff wrote on Oct 8, 2008 9:16 AM:

" The old lady comment was a bit of sarcasm.... given that Jimmy portrayed McCain as being so mean and nasty last night, I figured the only thing left was for him to trip (or punch or kick) and old lady before he left. Obama and Michelle stayed to mingle with the faithful, heal the sick, feed the poor. "

To My friends ... wrote on Oct 8, 2008 9:02 AM:

" I've finally gotten sick enough to call out these ridiculous lies. Obama never said the greatest nation quote. Snopes and PolitiFact both debunked that. I also defy you to show me an actual citation on the tax into prosperity quote. It is another lie. Finally, as this morning's Trib states the city will be billing the Obama campaign for some of the expenses associated with the rally. Exactly as they have done in the past. If you're going to lie, at least try to be clever. "

Starfish wrote on Oct 8, 2008 8:55 AM:

" You know, Youbetcha, I am much, MUCH more concerned with McCain's ties to Phil "Nation of Whiners"/Treasure Secretary Graham than I am with Chicago figureheads. And Jeff: what is this about McCain "trips and old lady?" Yeah, Lee Bowers, I checked out early, too. Thanks for the update, Jimmy--I just couldn't bear to waste my time. . . "

My friends.... wrote on Oct 8, 2008 8:35 AM:

" Wasn't this the salutation originally employed by Barack Hussein Obama? "My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. Please join with me as we try to change it." Also "My friends, I promise to tax you into prosperity." Perhaps McCain was using that phrase to mock Obama? Also, since Obama only made 100 million last month, its nice to see he is sticking the good people of LaCrosse with the tab for his rally. Classless. "

Jeff wrote on Oct 8, 2008 8:29 AM:

" Jimmy, you cherry picked the highlights. You've conveniently left out anything negative about Obama's performance. I think you forgot to mention the part where McCain trips and old lady before he leaves the hall. "

Lee Bowers wrote on Oct 8, 2008 7:54 AM:

" Thanks for the update. I watched it for about an hour, before getting bored. McCain appeared very wooden in his movement on the stage. He reminded me of a Chatty Cathie doll come to life. The "my friends' bit was way overdone. This old codger is running one of the dirtiest, meanest campaigns in the history of the country...and he's using the term, "my friends"...well it's just a ruse. By the by, I see McCain will be holding his rally here indoors where the seating is limited to 5,000. He dare not emulate Obama's outdoors event because the contrast in attendance would be so dramatic. "

Richard Cranium wrote on Oct 8, 2008 7:16 AM:

" And someone must have told McCain that in the last debate he failed to look at Obama. Apparently, this time he did. I did hear his comment when he said "that one". Man, that one (McCain) is losing it. With his temperament he can't be trusted to lead this country for the next four years. Just curious. Did McCain mention his support of President Bush at all during the debate. After all, he still has three months or so left. "

Your evaluation wrote on Oct 8, 2008 5:08 AM:

" is a good example of how everyone seems to see what they wanted to see, like so many of your bloggers always do. "

youbetcha wrote on Oct 8, 2008 4:07 AM:

" this is the second debate that barack hussein obama failed to acknowledge our victorys in Iraq. it is also the second debate that the lib commentators claimed another victory for obama. (~shock~)

of course these 'non-biased' reporters ignore their own polls showing that the 10 point advantage obama had is now in the margin of error. the media knows that obama is in trouble because with all the advantages they should have (hurting economy, war overseas, large negatives on the sitting president) they are tied with an old war horse and a young governor. when you add in the fact that people don't poll well on their race bias, obama is not looking good.

oh and jimmy, obama's ties to ayers and wright and rezko and odinga are legitimate concerns on his judgement and will fill the air from now until the election. "

harsch wrote on Oct 8, 2008 4:07 AM:

" Typical Marxist-Leninist Tribune-Jimmy-Al Sharpton-Al Franken-Al Qaeda Franklin Rooseveltian Doom and Gloom defeatist dogorrheal anti-military cut and paste and then run like the dickens bleak white house propaganda. I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. "


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